teach much strategy. west point teaches about how cadets can be junior officers. the service academy to this day we prepare the mission not to be at morals immediately. we prepare them to be second lieutenants. >> and west point gives that basic grounding and the most basic fundamental building blocks of the military expertise. and it gives them a lot of engineering. probably more than the really needed. so, the desire comes from more of a cultural affinity from napoleon. the sense of -- napoleon has a calling her liking to napoleon early in his career. he had times strikes the napoleonic pos and its people reading kind of popular history books that glorified napoleon because there are worse where of course the irony loses but there are these battles where he has these crushing decisive victories where at least that segment of the napoleonic war is

in many ways the model of what most west point journalists were hoping to achieve leader in the war becomes increasingly problematic and you have people like sherman who come up with interesting alternatives but for much of the public and the army's officer corps there is the desire the you can get that's what you want. you want to completely destroy your opponents in the field, not just make them retreat or just inflict more casualties but to actually crushed them as a organization. >> so what about counterinsurgency and insurgency methods? for those adopted during the civil war? those that may be broke out of the mold on the training on west point. >> there are definitely guerrillas especially where the union military logistics but

this is an issue that's definitely got more interest and some of the interest comes from the recent american issues overseas for lack of a better way of putting it. i would say it would be a mistake to overstate the influence of rural was partly because durrell was can deny the conventional military forces over the territory. they can harass the logistics but they cannot physically control that train in the way that the confederacy doesn't want the entire americans ought to be sort of a chaotic something like syria that is not the goal that the confederates are after. they want to control the territory in a way that a proper government can. and there are a variety of reasons for that. social, cultural, some of the month of slavery, a former property that requires the basic level of social stability. as you see in the civil war because they are slaves they are

a property in this regime the the reality is they are also human beings and people so they can run away and do things of the fading restriction in a way that physical property normally can't. so the confederacy is always going to be unable to really rely completely on guerrillas as the main line of the effort because the endpoint of that is to have just an environment of social chaos. you also have a powerful -- i used as an actor but the beginning of the book of the officers of the regular army had a lot of experience of a your regular warfare. but part of the consequence of the long experience in the old army and people like lee have to run around tasty the to chasing is they have a powerful distaste for it. they find it is politically at times very controversial. indians refuse to fight that proper european-style soldiers it becomes very frustrating.

finding the indian villages and attacking various degrees of on combatants and things like that, and the army find this very distasteful. this is what it usually actually does. when they did the big war that they are looking for in many ways, they are going to want to stick to a big plastic civil war battle so at the end of the war i have a story where will not leave's most artillery officers at the end of that it is clear this is a coherent the will no longer be all =to cover the war. they dispersed the men and have them keep their muskets and fight as guerrillas, and he basically rebukes him and kind of politely but everybody knows what he's saying and alexander basically says if we do that, the countryside will be filled

with chaos and the troops will lose their discipline and start spraying on the civilian population and you can do this but i'm going to surrender and see what happens. and alexander describes himself as never mentioning the idea again. so the sort of federal occupied areas of the hostile missouri is the most famous example that does become a problem for the federal logistics, and we would now call them counterinsurgency methods for dealing with it, block houses to protect railroads, the army becomes proficient in certain types of occupation duties dealing with maintaining civil order but it is i think very much the civil war is still the predominant war. >> professor wayne hsieh between the war of 1812, civil war come 1861, by 1861 did the u.s. for the south professional armies?

>> they did. it's very small and successful as a place where you see it happen its greatest success. but the problem is in 1861 it's a little over 16,000 officers and the officer corps will split so there is a professional army that is very small and has to be dispersed again and for that reason the early american armies in the civil war are actually quite poor really in their proficiency. they learn quickly but they learned the hard way, and that's one of the reason west point is catapulted to prominence because they are the only people with any kind of expertise and they immediately rely on very quickly and therefore they are given a disproportionate amount of influence but the irony again is that most of the -- de conquer

during the mexico can pan with an army that's usually about 104,011,000. this is the third of the size of the army much smaller dvr me you see at places like gettysburg and scott is the only person that has much experience and by the time of the civil war he's too old to take the field. all of the future civil war generals are officers who have experience with what we would call major combat operations with its still a much smaller scale and after that all they did was right on the frontier or the fortifications, so their expertise is actually in many ways also terribly deficient. but it's better than what everyone else has, which is nothing. so, there is a very small professional army, but the army the union of the confederacy produced cannot be i will describe it as a profession i would say and so probably leading until 1862 >> if you teach this to carry

the naval academy, what do you want students to leave with? spaight you never want to be that professor who is sox=@= obviously trying to sell books. the civil war, the big picture theme especially for the midshipmen is that there is that sometimes a collision between the way that a country wants to fight a war matt and how it ends up actually having to do so. the case relates to my book in 1861 the believe in the united states and the union confederacy is that you don't really need a professional military expertise. that's how the army got so small that in times of crisis good citizen soldiers will step forward and through their kind of virtue they will find a way and they will defeat because the

of freedom and they have courage on their side and happens very quickly has become increasingly clear that in fact the war and military affairs retire the body of systematic professional, a lot of issues of competence that are not directly related to justice or perceptions of justice or even bravery and west pointers are there for the positions people that have that concrete military expertise. they therefore have to build it on the fly and in the north it causes a lot of problems because they are politically, you know we would see less enthusiastic with our emancipation but it's the most important it simply and then the political leadership especially in the north becomes increasingly suspicious partly because they know their politics are different but they also are witness to this idea that we don't really need these professionals because we just rely on the need it virtue of

americans, and a lot of the story of the war is where is the volunteers are tremendously great and they do step forward and take tremendous losses but that is sufficient. it's not enough, and you have to have that professional expertise but they're becomes a degree of social conflict over this and devotees of the north it works out but it leads to a lot of friction, and it's because it is not just a phenomenon it is also that involves sort of hard objective types of expertise, and these are the types of things that are relevant to people to become professional officers. >> wayne hsieh a professor of the u.s. naval academy and author of this book "west pointers and the civil war" the old army in war and peace. book tv is on location in an analyst maryland

ha the year was 1981 or 1982 and i was living in hong kong. one day submission crossed my desk and was written by an italian journalist who was living in what we then called. and the visa did go to pyongyang and he'd written an article for his publication about it and the translation to be hoping that "the wall street journal" will publish at. of course they did, and i was really blown away by it. it was completely eye opening especially his description of the public worship of the general who was then the leader of north korea to reduce like reading a chapter from 1984.

george orwell's vision had come to light a few years earlier and the democratic people's republic of korea. i also as the years went by i couldn't get the closing line of the italian journalist arbuckle when i got off the plane i kissed the ground happy to be back in a free country. a free country? china in 1981? i knew china wasn't free. what was really possible that there could be placed that north korea could be worse? 30 years later we know the answer to that question. north korea is the world's most repressive state. people enslaved in the family regime which controls the every aspect of their lives even whether they get to eat. religion was banned. there is no rule flow and

proceeds political when fractions are met with harsh punishment i should add that is often needed out to three generations with the person's family. a political offender knows that when he goes to prison his parents and his children will probably go with him. there are probably about 200,000 north koreans today in the gulag and more than a million perhaps as 2 million have already died there. the reason we know all of this and much, much more is thanks to the testimony of north koreans who have escaped. these are the people i write about in my book. this knowledge comes to us despite the best efforts of the kim family regime to keep it secret. for more than 50 years, ever since the end of the korean war, north korea has been sealed off

from the world's eyes. the family regime has pursued an isolationist policy and it maintains an iron grip on information access to which is very strictly controlled. to give just one example every radio must be registered with the government and its style must be fixed to the government-run radio stations. to enforce this rule from security police are scattered in the neighborhoods trying to identify households where residents have tinkered with their radios and cartooning in to bat for the radiobroadcast nine. a high percentage of them listen to foreign radio broadcasts in north korea. people are hungry for an exhibition about the outside

world. they first go to china they can't go south to south korea, strange they've seen because it would run along the 38 per lot despite its name to mr. looker is the border of the world and. others may get out of north korea by giving in the dnc. then in china of the north koreans usually find that he has exchanged one circle for another. china's policy is to track down the north koreans in that country, and arrest them and send them back to north korea where they face imprisonment or worse for the so-called leading their country. this policy, the chinese policy

is in contravention of the obligations under the international treaties. some of the north koreans who are hiding in china decided to risk a second escaped to read out of china and south korea. no one could accomplish this on his own. some people can get out of north korea on their own and the hand of rescuers really reach into north korea itself, but if somebody wants to get out of china, the need help. the distances are great, and the challenges are too high for the north korean to do it on his own. this is where the new underground railroad comes in. like the original underground railroad and the pre-civil war american south, the new underground railroad is a network of safe houses and secret routes across china. the operators are both human traffickers who are in it for

the money coming and christians whose religious beliefs to help the darfurian brothers and sisters. thanks to the underground railroad which has been operating for about 12 years, an increasing number of north koreans are reaching safety in the south and a few other countries. the explosion in the number of north koreans who've gotten out in recent years is very striking. they keep track of the north koreans who reach south korea, and let me share with you just a couple of the numbers. in 1990, only nine north koreans were able to reach of korea. last year 7,000 north koreans reach safety in the south. the people who get out now have formed a large number that they are educating us about the truth

of life in north korea. and there's been several books published about life in north korea and we have a much better picture of what the truth of the assistance is the number three and refugees are performing a second equally important function. i do believe in law enforcement. they are hoping to open up their own information homeland. just as the world now knows more about north korea they know now far more of the world. this is thanks to the efforts that have escaped. think about it in the immigrant who goes to a new country which is the first thing he wants to do. he wants to let his family back home know that he's okay and tell them about his new life but for a north korean who wants to do that, it's next to impossible. you can't make a phone call to

north korea. you can't send e-mail or text message or facebook and you can't even mail a letter. so the exiles have created a black market in information. they hired chinese couriers to cross the border and deliver messages or sometimes they deliver chinese sell phones to a north korean relative to tell the relative to go to the border and receive a phone call from their relatives who have escaped to a different country. in south korea and north korean exiles have formed organizations whose purpose is to get information into north korea. it is set to give one example there are four radio stations run by north korean exiles that broadcast daily to north korea. the mantra of